Linear move to plate | Page 2 | Talk Pitching | TopVelocity Baseball Forum
April 27, 2008
Yes, this is tough to master correctly and I believe stronger more powerful pitchers drive through the heels and finish with the toes. The problem with driving through the ball of the foot is that it shifts the drive leg knee towards third base for a right hander which reduces leg drive by moving the leg into extension early with more internal rotation.
In Olympic Lifting, the drive leg foot position is coached differently in the technique used for a power clean to a squat. With a squat we coach the athlete to drive up from the heels. With a power clean we coach the athlete to drive up through the power pads. Pitching is a combination of both lifts. We need to be on our heels when we move from lift to “Load” to support triple flexion of the drive leg and then during the drive phase we need to then shift weight to the power pads and finish through the toes.
The proper sequence of triple extension of the drive leg goes:
- Knee extension – weight more on heel
- Ankle extension – finish through with toes.
- Hip Extension – supported by front leg stabilization.
February 29, 2012
Is their any external rotation of the rear knee during the leg lift loading process? I always coached kids to try to keep their weight on the inside pads balls etc of their post leg and coil or load into that stable posting rear leg which wants to externally rotate when loaded? If you go on you tube and search sevin “the move” it explains the theory when hitting a golf ball.It also in my opinion is used by pro ball players as well..do you think this has any credence in pitching whatsoever..? Now the reason I ask that is because I have seen video tapes of waist down action only of pitchers and hitters and it is tough to see much of a difference ..thanks brent!
April 27, 2008
This is a good point. This external rotation creates a more vertical force vector during the stride. I have seen Dick Mill’s coach a vertical force vector until just before front foot strike to force the drive leg to slam down and add more leg drive. I call this having a late force vector and the problem is I only find elite power pitcher’s who are able to do this and still achieve 3X before front foot strike.
Tim Lincecum has a bit of a late force vector but I have yet to find a young pitcher with a late force vector who can convert it into an explosive 3X. I believe Kershaw who leads with a linear force vector is a better example. I have also tested these mechanics and it is so much easier to coach and perform than a late force vector and I believe it also support a more explosive 3X.
The reason hitters and golfers would coach this late force vector is because you stand more vertical in the hitting positions which make it very difficult to extend or drive the legs into the ball. Using a late force vector to slam the drive leg forward during a short hitters stride or no stride, would be more beneficial for hitters than pitchers because pitchers have the time to use a long stride to put the force vector into a linear position to allow for full triple extension. This is why pitchers have the potential to generate higher arm speeds than hitters arm speeds (this is not including the speed of the bat which is a force multiplier).
July 14, 2011
That's the best I can do. I haven't seen Damien Magnifico pitch. (What a great name for a pitcher.) Norman is a couple of hours from Tulsa and I haven't seen OU play yet this year. What I think I know about him is that he was one of the best high school arms in the country a couple of years ago. The Mets drafted him but couldn't sign him. He transferred to OU from a top Juco program in Texas. And – and I'm sure this is why you've heard of him – apparently he has hit 100 mph several times this year. He supposedly threw 102 on the pitch in the video. (Listen to the sound as it hits the glove. Sounds like 102 to me.) I notice in the video that he's pitching out of the windup with a runner on first – so, obviously there are runners on second and third also. I think he's done a lot of that. According to the stats, he hasn't pitched very well so far. Too many walks, too many hits, not as many strikeouts as you would expect. Has pitched in relief except for one start. But, there is that 102 thing. I'll see if I can get some good video on him and post it.
The discussion above is an interesting one. Don't let me interrupt that.
Proud father of a U.S. Marine (HOME from Afghanistan)
December 19, 2011
He has the greatest name a pitcher could possibly have. Easily worth six figures all else being equal. I was hoping you had seen him in person – I would be interested in what your evaluation standard would score him.
At the Cal Poly game the other day, Damien Magnifico was all the scouts could talk about. OU was pitching down the coast from us at Pepperdine. The word is that he closed the day before and was sitting 99 – with several at 101…..
If you take in a game (I hear he is only closing) don't forget your video – your score and an analysis from Brent would be really interesting – the scouts were in complete awe of him…….Apparently there is a number where the reality of balls and strikes no longer enter the equation – haha
April 27, 2008
Damien Magnifico, is a good example of what wogdoggy is talking about. He doesn’t achieve triple extension in the drive leg but does slam the force vector down late into front foot strike. It is enough power with his front leg stabilization to open his hips and create some good hip to shoulders separation. His front leg extension is almost like Justin Verlander.
If he is giving up a lot of hits with his velocity into the triple digits then it must have to do with his short stride and his lack of leg drive which is giving him a short release point distance to the rubber. The 3D Doppler Radar has estimated 1 foot past the average 5.10 feet equals 2 mph in increase perceived pitching velocity. Someone like Tim Lincecum throwing 95mph but past 7 feet release point from the rubber is around 99mph perceived pitching velocity.
Damien Magnifico is a very interesting specimen but if he had a more dynamic drive leg I couldn’t imagine what the result would be.
August 28, 2011
This is the way 3X should work I guess. See how the load is nearly identical to a squat, and 3X like a power clean. Like Brent said, you need abit of weight on the heel so that you're technically not leaning over. As for the question, you don't need to slam the knee down as the speed is not being converted into the arms.
April 27, 2008
Good visual. The first frame is the point of his weight shifting to his power pads as the front foot is starting to open. Here is the frame when he is just moving from lift to load and you can see his weight is more on his power pads and heel than power pads and ball of foot. He is doing this because he is pushing weight down into his drive leg to generate ground reaction forces therefore the foot must be firmly planted on the ground to allow for this transfer of energy.
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